Raidlead Reportings (wall of text)

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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:01 pm

Raidlead Reportings (wall of text)

Post by Adreen » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:37 pm

Hi everyone,

first I will apologize for my bad English. I reading a lot of English news/articles, but writing down own ideas is a bit different ;)

My idea is more a complete new project than just a feature request. I know that this project would cost a lot of development hours. But I think it will improve the "usability" for every raid lead and interested player.

A view words about me
I leaded many different teams in world of warcraft in the past 5 years. I´m playing this game since classic and started raiding very early. I love theorycrafting and handling with numbers. I also listening to my members, but numbers cant lie. My experience is, that many players don´t really know what happens when they die ... they THINK sth. happened. But after looking in the logs u see, the "Iceblock" was ready and the player had about 6-7 seconds to use it. This doesn´t mean that I´m tracking every player what he do. And i don´t want to. But the most important thing for a raid lead is to know if the tactic works or not! If a player makes mistakes i have to support him, with changing the tactic (f.e. play with one more healer or let a second player do the same job with him, ... it depends on the boss encounter.). At the moment i am leading a 10-man raid team which has startet with hardmodes 1/13.

I love World of Logs
World of Logs is great! I have the access to all Buffs, Casts, Death Logs from every perspective (Time, Boss, Player, ...). But although its very time consuming to do a right analyse! Its easy to watch who did most damage. But as a good raid lead the question is not "who´s the best?". The question should always be "How can I improve the tactic to improve the Raid-DPS/Raid-Heal/Survivability?". Now you see i wrote "DPS/Heal/Survivability" and once again it depends on the Boss encounter and on the individual Raid "Problems" (for wipes and first kills). An experienced raid lead will see most things that happens on the battlefield, but u can just "guess". After a raid i want to know what really happens and not just to guess. I want see the reasons in the logs why someone is doing less dmg or dying all the time.

Logs > Guides
Guides are nice to "see" what happens and give a start tactic. But every Raid is individual! Especially when you are not a "world-top-guild" you will have to manage players with different skills (I mean the real human, not only the in-game class). I cant let kite all adds at Magmaw by an unexperienced mage. I will give him the chance to learn it ... but not at the firsttries. I would prefer to bomb with AE-Dmg coz we have a lot of AE-Power in our 10-man Lineup. If i´d had an skilled mage with low-dps coz of his poor gear, he had to kite - even if the guide says "Kill them!". Guides are ok, but a good raid-lead have to lead his team individual and customize the tactics or even develop individual tactics.

Raid lead at work
Preapare! After a Raid i compare our results with the average kills for this Boss. How many percent of the Kills did more dmg of us?
99%? Than we should work on our dmg!
50%? Well, more dmg is always good but it seems to be enough for this encounter!
How about the Heal per Second? Enough?
Let compare the DPS-Time of the players ... is there a significant difference? Maybe we should change the Positions or build up camps? Or Maybe avoid Camps (Atramedes).
If our tank dies ... why? Did he use Cooldowns on the Boss-announced Dmg-Peaks? What the healers did? Maybe the raid takes too much dmg in this moment and needs Healing-Time, too?
Ok, lets get deeper ... what about the Debuffs ... how many debuffs we get? Is there a way to avoid this? How many debuffs got the "average" of kills? Are 10 Debuffs in Raid ok? Or got only 3% of bosskills more debuffs than we did (and we even didnt kill the boss) ... Maybe we should work more against the debuff in cost of losing a bit dps ...

There are two important things:
- Compare with kills (what works?!) - only for this encounter!
- work up consequences; improve your tactic - only for this encounter!

What could World of Logs do for me?
I warned you already before, its more an whole project than just a Feature, but i want to be "unafraid" (<- i hope this word means what the translation told me :D)!

First I need a new site. A page where I will get a raid lead overview. To make it easier too understand what i am trying to say with my poor English i will give u an example in a highlighted color.

Analytics for "<Bossname>"

Raiddps comparing to other kills (i dont care about the wipes, i want to know what is successful).´
Your Raid did 65k effective DPS. 91% of the kills did more. Average of kills is 81k DPS
Your Raid had an DPS active time of 78%. Average is 94%. There are 99% of Raidkills with more DPS-Active time.

Now its up to the Raid lead to think about it ... BUT(!) why world of logs can´t help me? Of course WoL cant think for me, but it could give me some advices for this specific Boss encounter.
Advice: Maybe you could improve your DPS time if your Raid avoids building camps. Because "yellow-sound-circles" will pick a rnd player and move to them, this is way the whole "Camp" have to move. If u spread out there are less players which have to move.
The advice is only an example and could be shown up in a "not aggressive way".
This advices will be not 100% right. Because WoL cant read if the players really build up a camp ... WoL would start to guess! Yes, this is dangerous! But a raid lead should still know how his own raid works, but here he can see some advices and think about it!

There should be a "base-set" of rules (the dps, dps-active time, hps, Deathlogs-as already implemented, etc.).
But the core of this Feature are the "Advices" which depends on the Boss.
Omnotron Defense System: Your Raid took damage of 13 static schocks. Average per Kill is: 3. 95% of kills had a lower value than your raid. Advice: Switch the damage target for the Raid immediately when Elekron reaches 50 Energy - even the tank should stop hitting the boss when the shield comes up.
Omnotron Defense System: Your Raid had only 5% of time the Buff <thesmallcircleonthegroundwichgivesdmg>. Average per Kill is: 36%. When standing there your Damage Dealers get 50% more DPS and Healers get mana. Elektron hits only 3 targets with his chain-dmg - if you have enough heal u could use this Damage-Boost more.
Omnotron Defense System: 18 Players get damage by Magmatrons <focusingdmgonarndtarget>. Average per Kill is: 6. Only 3% of Kills were done with more Players hit by this spell. Mages, Paladins, x,x, ... can use immunity-spells to interrupt this cast when they get focused - so no player will be hit. If a player get focused he should stay in no line to other players. Maybe you could make a camp or declare with marks a "save spot" where these players can run to.

You see there are many many many rules. This is nice, but makes a lot of work to the developer-team. But THIS is whats really interesting.
Maybe there could be an possibility "suggest a new rule: <insert your Querylog-String here>; <insert a desription>, <dropdown the boss>, <insert an advice>", so the developers don´t have to code everything ... u just have to use your mighty Query-browser.

1) Its a new "layer" on the Data; and its an "blurred" view on the numbers
This is a question for WoL if you want to go this way. I startet with numbers can´t lie and this is why WoL don´t have to care a lot about new spell, patches or sth. like this. With this new layer they have to care ... or they have to let the community work ... but someone must build new Rules for new bosses, someone must give advices, someone have to check and test them.

2) Coding this "Plugin"
I don´t know how flexible your code is. Maybe u could use a lot of already codes stuff ... like the Deathlog, the Querybrowser, the different Views, the Rankings, etc. but there will still be a lot work to "patch" this together or code sth. new.

3) Database Synchronisation
Because of the custom ruleset for the different bosses it´s nearly impossible to design primary key in the database for these queries. This "overview site" would take a lot of Database power to calculate.
There must be a synchronisation/calculation job for this. I think this would be the best way to get weekly values (maybe averages for the last 4/8 weeks), but someone have to set up and administrate this process.
Possible? Yes, ... but lets talk about the sunshine and not the man-hours to do this :D

4) Many others,
i didnt think about them all. Why should I now? :D

My fingers getting tired of typing and my brain is out of memory now.
I still have much Ideas and Details in my head, but i will wait for your response.
Maybe you are just not interested in this Plugin, than I can throw away my ideas
and dont need to claim my fingers so hard :P

Remember this is just an idea and not a complete concept, there are many things that could be displayed/done in an other way ... maybe in a better way.

Thanks for time.

Guys, you really did a great job with World of Logs! I am not writing much in forums, especially when I don´t have to ;).
But I am impressed by your Work (i´m working in the information technolgy, so i know what i am talking about)!
It looks like you are questioning yourself in the same way like i do: "Its good but, ... mhh .. how can I make 'it' better?"