Item Level

Alash
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Item Level

Post by Alash » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:15 am

Hi World of Logs,

For me, a large part of the value your services bring is related to benchmarking: comparing my performance, spell usage, and damage breakdown to those who do better than me, and using that information to improve. World of Logs is a great help here. However, tied intrinsically to output is also gear of those I'm comparing myself to (and indeed my own) - it skews spell damage distribution and it's vital to understand whether they're playing more optimally or simply outgear me. It's like discussing a 100m sprint without knowing the times - you feel you were slightly ahead, but you can't be sure.

I suppose that there are technical limitations in retrieving this information (latest armory != gear on kill), but I also believe there are workable solutions to those limitations. Provided you can find a feasible solution (or even want to), I would like to request that Item Level is added as a (sortable) variable in the ranking views. That way I can to a much greater extent differentiate skill and gear when making comparisons.

cremor
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:06 am

Re: Item Level

Post by cremor » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:30 pm

WoL operates on the combat logs written by the WoW client. These logs don't contain any gear data. (Ok, to be honest they contain attack power and spell power values since patch 5.2, but as mentioned in other threads this values are sometimes wrong.)

Pulling the gear data out of the armory won't work for several reasons. First, there is no way to find the correct character in the armory. The combat log only contains character names, not realm names (unless it is a cross realm raid, then the characters not on the loggers realm contain the realm name). The realm chosen for the WoL guild doesn't have to be the real realm of the guild. So how would you know on which realm you have to search for the character?
Even if finding a character would be possible, the gear on the armory might be completely different from the gear used for the kill (e.g. PvP gear, DPS gear of healers/tanks).

The only way this would be possible is to have a seperate addon running while logging the raid. That addon could then log additional data. But the WoL admins have said several times that they don't have plans for such an addon.

Buraan
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Buraan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:52 pm

Best thing to do is check their current gear and the date on the log, and guess (or you go through their loot history and figure out what they may have had/not had. ) You can tell what trinkets they were using though.

Alash
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Alash » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:53 pm

That's what I've been doing: manually looking up EU and US Armories 1 after 1 and jotting that into a spreadsheet to generate a graph with trend lines.

I believe this has broad appeal though, and will provide quality benchmarking that other services out there can't provide. I mean, think about the possibilities... if this information was available, it's not a far cry to let users input an ilvl and see - empirically - what DPS/HPS/damagetaken/etc. figures that should yield for a certain spec on a certain boss. Obviously this functionality brings its own set of variables, but it's certainly a powerful tool.

That's why I'm making the request.

Buraan
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Buraan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:08 pm

I'd say that no matter what its going to be a guess, imagine you did ToT and you're looking at a lei shen log, but the guy got a ton of stuff from bosses 1-12, and then at the time the log is uploaded, the guy hasn't logged out his ilvl could easily be up to 10 ilvls out. This also doesn't take into account that you can actually do more dps with lower ilvl gear in many cases due to itemization and particularly trinkets. So I agree that it would be hugely useful to have all the information for everyone who ever did a raid in any instance and exactly the gear that they had, etc etc, its pretty much impossible to do unless you are blizzard. Not to mention the other issues that cremor mentioned with realms being completely arbitrary on World of logs, (even if most people do make their guilds on the realm that they are actually on). What you could do though, is make a tool that tracks the ilvl of a list of individuals that you specify, the list could be derived from the ranks 1-150, and check periodically for their ilvl (lets say an overnight batch) ignoring any -ve change in ilvl greater than 10 or something to avoid catching pvp gear. You would then have a database of all the ilvls of the significant individuals over time. It almost seems like something that would be more appropriate for raidbots to track when it records the individuals dps. But this really seems like the sort of thing that you'd have to make yourself as its far beyond the scope of world of logs.

If there were more developers then there would be many many more features that could be added. I like you find the vast amounts of potentially available information quite fascinating and there is a lot of untapped potential.

Buraan
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Buraan » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:19 pm

Are you EU or US btw, wouldn't mind making a tool to do this to be honest.

Alash
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Alash » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:48 pm

I'm Lachtobi @ EU-Draenor.

Still not sure this is as impossible as this thread makes it seem. http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/lig ... de/Paragon if they can do it without addons (check the separate ilvls for each kills), WOL should too. Difference is WOL have the tools to turn that information into something valuable.

cremor
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:06 am

Re: Item Level

Post by cremor » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:26 pm

The information on WowProgress is just plain wrong. It shows all my kills with a wrong item level because I logged out in (lower item level) DPS gear after the raid but was a healer during the whole raid.

Zumzum
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:51 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Zumzum » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:05 pm

A little improvement could be to have an icon to the left of each rank that directly links to the Armory page of the player. Wouldn't work sometimes when the log isn't from this server but this isn't really a big deal...

Leguhc
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:34 pm

Re: Item Level

Post by Leguhc » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:46 pm

I was thinking that this should really be implemented into WoL in some way. Maybe it wouldn't require an Add-On (even though that would be very nice for the sake of not running a separate client) but could use more of an armory update system. I know their could be ways of botching this idea but I was thinking along the lines of updating characters or importing their armory onto WoL with the current actual Log.

For example:

10-Man group raids for 3 hours or so in ToT. They Log all the bosses that they do, and they have a Guild leader or WoL Member import all of the characters' armory input by entering their realm (Using a import armory button or something)

Information about each characters gear and reforges are saved by text file or picture (Or both) and can be displayed when actually looking up this person's ranks.

If this happens, then their info will be connected to that log specifically. This way if people actually wanted to check a person's gear or ilvl they could see if that person actually put in the effort to upload their data.

Just an idea in progress. Don't know how to avoid fraud or such (Could cross-check kills with others in the group or something).
Also think this would be good so WoL could possibly run a separate iLvl comparison of logs. (Basically to show logs of your ilvl/class and spec, in comparison to others who uploaded such)

This idea just seems extremely helpful due. It's one thing to show off in Heroic T15 gear and parse in the top 20 in comparison to some guy in maybe 522 gear who is in the top 30 or 40.

:)

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