Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

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Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Aenar » Sat May 09, 2009 3:23 am

I'll break the ice...

In the 10 man raids I participate in, only our top DPS seem to break 4k on occasion. However, I regularly see logs of similarly geared people hitting 5-6k+.

Below is an example of one of my guild's top rogues and a rogue from another guild. In general this guild's dps crushes mine, but I figure it's easier to look at a simple class like rogue as a frame of reference instead of the whole raid.

In this example, Doerbird's dps is 7909 for XT-002 while Luxun's is 4441. Their percent of damage for each attack (autoattack, sinister strike, etc) are all about the same, but Doerbird somehow is hitting for about 35% more on average. Their gear and talents are comparable, so it's leading me to believe it's a raid composition issue?

Armory
Luxun - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Garona&n=Luxun&group=1
Doerbird - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Area+52&n=Doerbird&group=1

Summary of XT-002
Luxun's raid - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lLRKrPjXMaHtKUsU/sum/damageDone/?s=402&e=738
Doerbird's raid - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7b2U7J0TspxOCsw3/sum/damageDone/?s=6056&e=6205

Summary of Damage Done
Luxun - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lLRKrPjXMaHtKUsU/details/8/?s=402&e=738
Doerbird - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7b2U7J0TspxOCsw3/details/7/?s=6056&e=6205

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Mutu » Sat May 09, 2009 4:20 am

Heh.. bad fight to pick as an example... Go check out the 'Damage by Actor' tab for Doerbird and you'll see he did A TON of it on the Heart (takes twice the damage done by abilities) whereas Luxun chased some adds around and wasted valuable DPS time*.

I haven't looked too closely but that makes a huge difference all other things being equal.

I know I can crank out about 6500 DPS on my Feral druid in a 10-man raid (and that's with switching to kill a little add or two if they're close to reaching the boss) on that fight... but again, it's skewed and not a good gauge of performance unless those you are comparing are attacking the same targets (roughly) for most of the fight.

* = saying he wasted time is perhaps harsh; it all depends what the RL had him responsible for during that fight.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Miles » Sat May 09, 2009 2:58 pm

It's the heart indeed; Doerbird's raid didn't waste any time and got three of the heart phases pretty much directly after each other. That, plus being assigned on the boss / heart only makes his damage much higher.

On the buffs side, it's Luxun with Improved Icy Talon (+haste) vs Unleashed Rage (+10% AP) and Rampage (5% crit); I'd say Doerbird got the advantage there.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Aenar » Sat May 09, 2009 6:34 pm

Good point on the heart skewing the numbers a bit. I tried to pick a fairly static fight for comparison but there really aren't any in Ulduar. So far that 10 man has 6 bosses down.

Has anyone found a boss in Ulduar that makes for a more simple comparison of damage raid?

Also, yeah Luxun was assigned to keep an eye on the repair bots if the mages couldn't AOE them down in time, so he wasn't able to stay on the heart 100%.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Zafo » Mon May 11, 2009 10:45 am

You should try Ignis for a comparison between rogues. It's a fairly straight forward fight as far as melee dps is concerned. You will notice a drop in their dps if they are put in the slag pot, however.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby Mutu » Mon May 11, 2009 7:09 pm

For melee, and especially if you're doing the "keep him stationary" strat, Vezax is also a good fight... although Rogues/Warriors will probably waste a few GCDs to Kick/Pummel to interrupt the Searing Flames. Other than that though, it's just mostly spank and tank for the melee.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby pscot82 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:18 am

Mutu wrote:For melee, and especially if you're doing the "keep him stationary" strat, Vezax is also a good fight... although Rogues/Warriors will probably waste a few GCDs to Kick/Pummel to interrupt the Searing Flames. Other than that though, it's just mostly spank and tank for the melee.


I would disagree with Vezax being a good benchmark. Unless your raid has two enhancement shamans as the interruptors, then other interruptors will have to hold back their GCDs in order to ensure they can interrupt properly.

Kologarn is the best fight for straight melee DPS. Melee can plant themselves directly on the tank in the front & center and be able to hit any/all 3 targets without moving an inch the entire fight. Melee DPS never have to move at all, and they never have to do anything other than push DPS buttons, and unless they get grabbed by the Right Arm, they will have pure DPS the entire fight. Just compare those logs and find a fight for each rogue you want to look at where they didn't get grabbed throughout the fight.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby hoho » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:49 am

I personally have been using Ignis as "new patchwerk". Our strat is to tank it near a pool and the boss never moves. Interrupts shouldn't really interrupt melees either I think as all they have is instants.

Kologarn isn't the best benchmark as players with multi-target abilities (cleave, blood strike? etc) will have highly inflated DPS, not to mention DK's throwing out dnd on rubble.
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Re: Large Discripancy Between Raid DPS?

Postby aarcani » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:27 pm

pscot82 wrote:other interruptors will have to hold back their GCDs in order to ensure they can interrupt properly.


Interrupts are off the GCD.

Rogues just need to pool energy to ensure the kick, pooling energy is not a dps loss, but the energy to kick is. Warriors also just need to conserve rage when they're up for interrupt, the dps loss is in the rage spent.
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